It’s time to rethink our trend.
#boycottouat is the only thing we CAN trend now on Sunday, September 28th.
Whether one awful writer thinks that it’ll never happen or not, and whether that writers’ words translate into an essentially quite large spoiler that it will never happen, isn’t the…
My father used to say, “Don’t raise your voice. Improve your argument.
- DO NOT SPEAK TO ME IN A CONDESCENDING WAY
- DO NOT SPEAK TO ME LIKE I’M AN IDIOT
- DO NOT SPEAK TO ME AS IF I’M STUPID BECAUSE I DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU KNEW ABOUT OR BECAUSE I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND SOMETHING THAT’S SIMPLE FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND
- JUST DON’T DO IT
Petition to turn the Swan Queen ship into a party yacht.
I mean, I think A&E have made it pretty clear that SQ is never going to happen, so I say we throw our hands up and say, “Fuck it!” And just revel in the beautiful talent of our fanfiction, fanart, fanvideos, manips, and better-than-canon gifsets.
This way we can sit back, drink our booze, and cheer on the other canon ships that will be biting their nails all the way through season 4.
Check out my new Huffpost article on inclusion.
Just out of curiosity, do you watch the show?
And I am curious as to why if you believe so strongly in queer representation you are arguing that the show should make a child abusing rapist queer. Anyone who actually knows anything about the issue would be well aware that Regina is exactly the opposite if good queer representation, she only reinforces existing negative stereotypes and that SQ would be a step backwards for good queer representation.
And you too. Yet another participant in the “nothing intelligent to add but please look at me” brigade.
Go away. Return when you have something original to add to the conversation.
Something original like bring up the matter of good vs bad representation? Talking about how queer people already have to deal with the negative stereotypes of not being about to control themselves and how they shouldn’t be allowed around children and how adding to that negative stereotype would be harmful. Talking about how one of the common tropes used to establish a bad guy is making them queer and how queer people don’t want that added to.
Talking about how we don’t just want more queer characters, we want good positive queer characters. Not villains, not people who perpetuate the existing negative attitudes, good representation, we have enough bad representation already.
Intelligent like trying to to make something good come out of this article by using it to spark a genuine debate about the real issue of queer representation. By talking about what we need and don’t need to see, rather than campaigning for bad representation out of a desire to get a specific ship recognised.
And can you please explain what is so original and intelligent about your comment, and how it adds to the debate?
My comment had nothing to do with adding to the debate. I have tried to engage you all in sensible debate before. It was an exercise in futility.
Was my purpose not plain?
If your purpose was to hate on those actually discussing a serious issue because you have nothing of substance to add yourself, then yes, your purpose was very plain.
But I thought it might be worth at least making an attempt to explain some of the issues around queer representation and why SQ would be so bad for it, in case it was just genuine ignorance on your part.
But now I know you are not really interested in the issue, presumably it is just something you have heard of and use to justify bullying people because your ship isn’t happening, I won’t bother.
But if anyone is interested in discussing the true issue of queer representation in the media, rather than the skewed version these people use to justify their hate, please feel free to message me.
Your argument is based on an informal fallacy. It isn’t even a logical fallacy. It literally isn’t worth arguing.
And yet you cannot come up with a single point to refute it.
Are you really unaware of the negative stereotypes about queers people? That it is assumed that they cannot control themselves? That it would be harmful for children to be raised by a queer couple? Are you so naive that you don’t about the prejudice faced by queer people every day?
If you know so little about the issue, you should stay out of the discussion.
You are giving me a migraine. Let me say this slowly, carefully and with relatively small words. Hopefully, you will get it.
1. Your argument has nothing to do with the article. The article made no mention of the merit or demerits of the Swan Queen ship. It was a discussion of the journalist’s observations regarding the treatment of the Swan Queen fandom versus the Captain Swan fandom in relation to a specific set of incidents.
2. Your personal dislike of Regina Mills has no bearing on your own argument because the character you describe no longer exists. She has been through a long, torturous redemption.
3. Nothing about your argument makes sense. It is as if you’re stringing words together and hoping they make sense. Your idiocy and complete inability to form a coherent argument after three seasons makes me want to weep.
I’m afraid you can speak as slowly as you want, it will not change the facts.
1. Your point is contradictory, you say the article was not about SQ and then say it was. The article purported to me about queer representation but only mentioned one queer ship, one that which would be bad representation. It also suggested that there was something wrong with paying more attention to canon ships popular with the fanbase than to fanon ones that are only known within the fandom.
She was arguing that SQ does not get enough attention, when it gets the kind of attention most fanon ships only dream of. And it certainly should not be connected to the issue of queer representation as anything other than an example of what not to do.
2. Simply not true. It has been half a season she admitted to having no regrets, she is still not shown any regret or apologised to her victims. She has spent less than 24 hours with Henry since she last abused him, still blames Snow for Cora’s actions and has been keeping Sydney locked in the hospital basement. These are not the actions of soemone who has been redeemed. Even A&E confirmed in a recent interview that Henry will be on a mission to save her and that his goodness might rub off on her, showing she is not yet good herself.
It has also been less than 2 years since she raped and murdered Graham, a crime she has still not faced any consequences for, that is not a long time. And torturous, she spent one night in jail, other than that she has constantly been mollycoddled by the good guys. She has been treated extraordinarily well, much better than she deserved.
And even if she had been given a real redemption arc she would still be bad representation because she would still be a rapist and a child abuser.
3. You seem to be the only person struggling to understand me. But if you let me know what part of my argument you were unable to understand I will be happy to explain in simpler wording.
1. The article is *about* queer representation. It *uses* swan queen as an example. If that was unclear to you, perhaps spend a touch more time on reading comprehension skills.
2. Regina has no regrets about what she did, but she has shown remorse. Our definitions of child abuse apparently differ (I tend to go with “what is actually considered in the united states to be child abuse” as my barometer), but she actually took the blame for Daniel dying which was part of her redemption. She also apologized to Belle, as well as fighting along side all of the others in a physical manifestation of her contrition. Sydney has been locked in the basement, sure, but mostly because the actor who played him was on another show. But you can have that one.
She absolutely murdered graham, you can have that one as well. The creators said it wasn’t rape, I disagree so you can have that one too. Point being, exactly zero “villains” on this show are perfect, and exactly zero “heroes” on this show are perfect. Snow’s killed a fuck ton of people. David and Hook and, god Rumple is horrific. So if we’re going by your logic, every damn one of them is bad representation of a relationship, not one of them is worthy of acknowledgment.
Also, Regina beat Zelena with light magic. Something they thought only Emma could do. Because, as established in the show, only those with light hearts can perform light magic. EX POST FACTO Regina is good. Honestly. Your lack of empathy for Regina as a character hurts your argument almost as much as your logical flaws.
3. I’m only responding because you were being super condescending to someone who is much smarter, more patient, and more tolerant than I am. AND you were blatantly wrong. AND you invited critique on your comments. So here I am.
Probably stop, tho. Just step away. You can be grumpy about Regina being treated like, I don’t know, part of the fulcrum upon which the show rests. That’s totally cool. I loathe 90% of the male characters. I get it. But when you go toe to toe with someone who is not only more articulate but also has a better argument with more real world application (For real. Nothing Regina has done could get her locked up for child abuse.) you look foolish. So just stop, right? Like do your thing over in your area of the internet. Bash us all you want. But don’t go after journalists. Don’t go after people who ship the ship. Just don’t. It’s SILLY. Not just because you’re like, actually dead wrong, but because… If it’s not your fight, and you don’t have anything productive to add to the conversation, why bother? If the conversation is “Queer representation” and someone holds up Calzona, I’m not gonna be like “Screw that I don’t want queer representation in the form of a cheater”. I’m gonna be like *quietly to myself* ugh I wish the writing was better for that particular set, but yeah, really any representation at this point at least gets the conversation going. (What up will and grace/queer eye for the straight guy/l word/ queer as folk…) There’s problems with every pairing. Your problems are with a character in this particular one. Which is your right. But don’t piss all over an important conversation because you’d rather see Regina rot in jail. I don’t go after Rumbelles even though I have VERY strong feelings about how rumple should be punished. So really, it’s possible. You can do it. I know you can. Just walk away.
Now on a serious note, I will not argue the ships themselves or about characters because…whatever. That’s not the point. The article showed only one side of the issue and didn’t at all touch on the treatment that the cast and crew get from Swan Queen shippers on twitter. Not every Swen is guilty but most of the bullies are, I’m sorry, Swan Queen shippers. I also find it hard to believe that you really want queer representation because you don’t nearly as hard for Sleeping Warrior, (which is more canon than Swan Queen will ever be.) as you do the pairing of Emma and Regina.
The problem people like me have about this article is that it only talked about Swan Queen as if it’s the ambassador of same sex pairings when there are more problems people have with it other than two females falling in love. Journalism is supposed to be unbiased and show every perspective, but this article didn’t even come close. It also dragged Jen’s name through the mud because she doesn’t get enough shit from entitled cunts on twitter.
Swan Queen has gotten way more recognition than any other ship, and it doesn’t even deserve the what it already got from the writers. The only reason why they address it at all is because Swens won’t leave the writers the fuck alone about it. They don’t want to talk about Swan Queen and it doesn’t matter how much you whine about how oppressed you are. If anything, you guys are digging your own graves. If I were a writer and I got the amount of hate the writers of Once did, I would be even more against writing the ship because it would be disrespectful to the other fans who did show respect.
Want people to leave you alone? Then stop harassing the writers on twitter. Stop writing smear articles about them. Stop calling people homophobic for not shipping Swan Queen and stop calling CSers rape apologists. Basically stop being a bunch of entitled children and watch something else if this show bothers you that much. So basically take your own advice and walk away. If you eliminate bad behavior then I will go back to talking about Captain Swan, Sims and cats. And we will all be a happy camper.
Except you’re going back on your own points by ignoring the characters you brought into the conversation? You challenged “do you watch the show” Lessa (not to be informal…) opined that Regina wasn’t worthy. That’s not about queer representation. Neither is the treatment of cast and crew on twitter. (Speaking of, remember when Michael Coleman was super rude to Swan Queen? Or Ginnifer Goodwin? Twice? Good times.)
Look. Are some people douches? Yeah. That’s not to one ship, show, or state. Some people take social media and our ability to talk to celebs like they are now talking to their besties. That’s weird and kinda inappropriate. From anyone.
I must not be reading the same article as you because I saw nowhere that Swan Queen was the ambassador of lady loving. It moves from “Hey my job was doing a thing and we got sucked into this weird conversation on twitter where people were douches” to “and then actually this thing happened about this one pairing” to “Idk why tv can’t be inclusive.”
Swan Queen gets more hype than other pairings because it’s quite literally the cruz of the show. Take out the romantic aspect, the premise of the show was basically Savior, Evil queen, their son. So yeah. It gets some attention whether we’re talking about how much we love when they hate one another or how much we’d love to see them make out.
The problem with “Swen”s relationship with the writers is that they literally spend a whole fuckton of time being like “You see romance? Keep watching! It’s gonna get good!” and “We’re gonna give you some gay!!!”. I’ve said before that if the writers had just done the Rizzoli and Isles route (which is still shitty but at least they manned up) and said “Yeah that’s not gonna be a thing.” People would still watch and take away what they will. They still do for Rizzoli and Isles. But they wouldn’t feel like the writers used them. (Well. Some do for R&I But mostly everyone’s over it)
And look. You can think whatever you want about swan queen and their treatment of whoever. But maybe don’t distill people fighting for actual representation, problematic or gold star perfect, down into “whining about how oppressed you are”? It’s 2014 and a gay couple was killed not 4 blocks from my best friend’s apartment in a hate crime. So like… I get what you’re saying about the show and the fandoms however much I disagree with you…. But maybe don’t be so blasé about our actual, literal, tangible, physical, reality based oppression? Please? For me?
And to finish alongside your conclusion: I don’t think the people who don’t ship swan queen are homophobic, I think a huge reason that it won’t be explored and why people instantly react negatively against it has deep roots in institutionalized (our country’s foundational morals etc… not necessarily individual bias) heteronormativity. I think that Captain Hook and his relationship as it pertains to Emma in the second half of the third season can be held up as textbook rape culture. Which is different from calling people who ship it rape apologists, but deeper into a conversation I would definitely be inclined to posit that, like the deeply rooted heteronormativity that feeds that animus against swan queen, the blinders people sometimes have (not all, but the defenses I’ve seen certainly) for Hook and the story line fall into the patriarchal misogyny that plagues the country. Again, hardly an active choice, but I’d argue a scary one as a woman. Colin is pretty, but I wouldn’t want Hook as a partner. It would worry me if one of my sisters did, in a whole kind of “women need to stand up for themselves” kinda way. And again. That’s hardly rape apology (except when people are like BUT SHE WAS DRUNK ITS NOT RAPE… which is definitely rape apology but i put along side the crazy swan queeners as crazy because I hope as a gender women are better at recognizing rape than that cosmo article insinuated) and it’s not homophobia, but rape culture is very much in the national conversation right now, and Hook happens to hit a bunch of check marks. That’s problematic for me. But there are women like Janay Rice who are ok with that. I’d never act like I know better, but If you can’t talk to someone and say hey, do you recognize that this is destructive behavior? without it resorting to name calling, then there’s a problem. A bigger problem than a poorly written show on Sunday.
Harassing people is always wrong. I call it out when I see it. I have like… 9 followers and a ton of student debt so I’m hardly a beacon of change, but I definitely don’t engage in baiting others. I will however, call out strawmen and weak arguments (as I was doing here).
I hope you never ever come across a situation where you’re driven to speak out against something mainstream because it’s so problematic to your personal well being. You called, me I guess but you used it plural, a bunch of entitled children. In my field we call that privilege. In my life, I would long for the privilege to be able to see myself reflected on tv without the double talk, without having to fight for it, without derision, without having to watch bad 90s films on netflix that are foreign and have subtitles. I would long for the time when boys on screen, any screen, any show, gross assholes who somehow STILL get the girl. I would long for a world that recognizes women as a larger population than men, who’s stories deserve to be told without a love interest. I long for a world where people of color aren’t used as props in narrative. I would love the privilege to walk home at night without my keys between my fingers because the men in the bar near my house seem to think my walking passed them is somehow performance art for them to comment on. And I will fight for these things, and more (I could talk for days about religious freedom) until my last dying breath. And if that mentality makes me an entitled child, then, whelp, guess I’m a child.
Enjoy your cats and your sims (I’m so bad at sims. I might be the only person in the world that is inept at playing sims) and your captain swan. I wish you happiness.
*STANDING FUCKING OVATION*
Everyone get on your feet. This response says it all.
The emails are: Tra-Mi.Callahan@abc.com and Jeffrey.A.Fordis@abc.com
This is an example of what I sent:
To Whom it May Concern,
I’m writing to you to express concerns about a writer from StarryMag, Lisa Steinberg, who was given press access with the Once Upon a Time cast…